It's nice to know I have the attention of some people on this site. God forbid I wouldn't want you to reply about anyone else's comments. I love the attention.



I not that lucky. Just because you have the word king in your name doesn't mean people will do as you say. At least you tried to be funny for once.

Seems to me we bonded together as NOTA members...oh...about 4 years ago, as I recall, LW I actually thought about that when I posted this.

I pretty strongly disagree with the entire sentiment.  Because you don't like the strucutre, you take your ball and go home.  And then complain that the system doesn't represent you.  It's this kind of apathetic, defeatist attitude that has gotten us where we are today.  We don't like the system, so we expect the system to change to draw us back in, until then we're going to sit here on the sideline, complain, ridicule and deride, and dismiss it as not being "My Government"  (not the exact words here, but it's the general argument I've heard from many many people since 2000).

Well here's an eye-opener for you folks as well: The system has no incentive or reason to change on its own to attract you back in.  Why?  Because it works for those in power.  You incent change in elected officials by challenging their safety, by letting them know they can't just do whatever they want.

Yes, people are fed up with the system as it stands, but instead of working to change it, they want to take it easy and wait for others to do the hard work for them.  If even half of the disillusioned folks in the country who simply choose not to participate, jumped in and voted for a third party, or did something else to show they actually still care, things would change in a hurry.  Politicians and the system as a whole ignore you because you've proven to them you're completely unimportant.  It's a harsh statement, but those who refuse to participate in the system are completely useless to it and will be discarded and ignored as irrellevant.

In the end, yes you do give up some degree of justification to complain when you refuse to vote.  It doesn't matter if it's a throw-away vote on a candidate who doesn't have a shot in hell.  It doesn't matter if it's a blank ballot, or a random write-in.  You've made your displeasure known.  You've taken part and fulfilled your half of the bargain.  Failing to do that you're really just pulling the equivalent of "I'm going to hold my breath until you do what I say!"

Think the system is broken? Then DO something instead of sitting around, doing nothing and just complaining.

If you only consider your vote to be meaningful if the candidates you're voting for is everything you want them to be, then you are missing the point completely.

There are several ways we can use our voice in a free society, voting is merely one of them.  If we choose not to vote, we are voluntarily surrendering our voice in that part of the system.

But I also agree with you.  If the only part of your voice you are using is your vote, you're surrendering all the other parts of your voice. 

Too many people vote without knowing a thing about the candidates are issues on the ballot.  To me, that is actually worse than taking yourself out of the system.  They are using their voice but saying nothing.  They are affecting the outcome, with no idea what they are saying.  They are like a referee of a game that just likes to blow the whistle, having no idea what the whistle means.

Interesting debate.  I like Zoomba and Ted's answers.  I understand Ock's point. But think Ted and Mike have an answer for it.

those who refuse to participate in the system are completely useless to it and will be discarded and ignored as irrellevant.

DO something instead of sitting around, doing nothing and just complaining

Well said Zoomba.



There is no free lunch. You cant get anything (i.e. change) by doing "nothing". This kind of attitude that this post describes is what got us where we are in the first place.

"I have never voted in my life. First because I just didn't care for politics before. I had no interest in it. Last elections was because I didn't register ontime and was unaware I could have voted anyways."

That's nobody's fault but your own.

"I feel that voting for these current candidates (Republican or Democrat) is like picking the lesser of the bad guys. They all suck, they are all only interested in getting elected."

You aren't alone I share your feeling and your insight there. Whats sad is it's mostly factual.

"Too many people vote without knowing a thing about the candidates are issues on the ballot. "

Really? I thought the age limits were supposed to prevent the teenager crowd from making an uninformed decision.

You guys who are sick of voting, have to decide if making your vote count is more important to you then not voting. If letting other people decide for you what the course of events is to be, without your participation then you really do have little if anything to cry about if it doesn't work out how you like. Even if you do vote, you will lose some of the time, duh. But you will have at least taken part, and added your count to the masses, set an example for your neighbors and co workers, as well as children and continue to propagate democratic life.

Those are real benefits, even though you maybe be voting for the least bad of the bunch, consider that those guys had to be assholes to get up to that point. Past the primary, past the 5-10% barrier. On the national stage guess what, they are all assholes, that will smile, shake your hand, take your money, and work the crowd whether you are there or not. Thats what they do. They also lie, they cheat, they take advantages nobody would in the rest of society against opponents, and they do what they need to do to get elected. The system allows them to do that because they tweak the system to stay in power.

On the local level it's quite a bit different, you can actually meet someone, have a lunch, voice your concerns, explain your position, have an effect, if it gets you so pissed, you can even run and stand a chance to win. Whats important is taking part, because when you don't you can cry and complain just as if you had voted, but you'll know you didn't do anything except cry and complain when your number was up.

Learn how to register.
http://www.sec.state.ma.us/ele/eleifv/howreg.htm

Learn the candidates. Spend 15 min researching, it's not that hard, they all have websites with nice little kittens and some dumb shit campaign slogan.

Learn where to vote, and go do it!

Ok now you can tell me to shut up.

"Our system is broken and does not represent or reflect my choices."

Then run for office. Nobody and nothing prevents you from being eligible right?

"I have the desire to turn our electoral system on its ear but have no idea where to start."

"...I am contributing to society using my BEST skills and abilities..."
You sound like an excellent candidate.

" but in reality, today's Americans (in general) are the "all about me" generation that EXPECTS to be given whatever he/she wants because he/she wants it."

Really, is that the same generation that went rushing up into the towers on 9/11? How about the crowd on flight 93? What about those choosing to re-enlist time and time again in a military to fight a war which is fast losing popular support, because they believe in it.

"This generation expects to be listened to because they are the EXPERTS on whatever topic they choose."

They certainly are more educated than previous generations. I'll stand by my statement that if it bothers you to the degree that you can't stand it, run for office. You might get elected.

I have to admit that while I share OckhamsRazor sentiments on this article, I agree with Zoomba and ParaTed2k about how we should not just sit there and do nothing. I guess I should take my own advice when I'm the first one to scream about people sitting there caring more about American Idol and Deadliest catch and less about voting, who to vote for and the issues. As i said before I did not have much interest in politics and never really cared much what happened till about 3 maybe 4 years ago, after Bush's second win. I wanted to vote in these recent elections but failed to send the registration on time, I was also unaware that I could have voted anyways.



I don't believe I was blaming anyone but myself. I have mentioned before how I take responsibilities for my own actions and don't go around blaming the Gov't for everything I do wrong.



I know, though sometimes it does feel like one is alone because, as Ted said we should voice ourselves more but we don't.

Not to steal Mari's thunder while she's on a roll, and not to change the subject, but I believe there is justification for her saying Americans are largely reactionary right here in this very thread! Namely in most of the responses that completely missed my point. I'll take the hit for that one. I think in more than 2 dimensions, and there's only 2 to write in. Getting my thoughts to page has always been my achille's heal.

Anyway, what I'm trying to convey, is that voting, blank ballots, write in ballots, or votes for actual candidates have no more affect on changing anything than not voting does. The people get in office, and then they do whatever the hell they want to.

Oh but Ock! Then you vote them out, and they're threatened by your voting power! No they aren't. Then they write their memoirs and go on Oprah. Or they become meat puppets on some local or internationally syndicated commentary show so they can tell the rest of the US what to think. Or they travel around to Universities giving speeches. Or they do all of the above.

As long as the current system is in place, every politician that makes it into office for even one term has a secure life in selling thought for the rest of their lives.

As far as doing something to change it, some of you would find my suggestions abhorrent, and I also find them to be quite impossible to make happen, so I'll not subject myself to ridicule by stating my radical ideas to reactionaries.

Many of you basically see our democracy as an enclosed system that is self-sustaining based on everyone doing their civic duty and casting that vote. What *I* was trying to say wasn't that me voting in that enclosed bullet-proof system wouldn't have any effect, but that the system is NOT bullet proof, it's NOT enclosed, and looks to to have more holes in it than a big slice of swiss cheese.

If you take THAT model into consideration, maybe it makes more sense to you that I will ever only use my vote to try to keep someone OUT of office (which is the only time I ever did vote). I don't foresee that situation ever happening again because the line of altruism is so frigging far away from all of them, it just doesn't matter.

My point was that if you do nothing to either participate in the system, or to try and fix the system, you have no room to complain.  If you're not willing to do something... anything... and just want to sit there and gripe about how broken things are, you're a hypocrite.

Of course you never lose your right to complain, that's a constitutionally assigned right.  What you do lose is the ability to be taken seriously in any discussion on the government, politics, elections etc.  If you don't participate in some way, even if it's in protest, you've given up your voice in the process.  Democracy isn't some free lunch sort of deal where you get it all for nothing.  The expectation is you participate in some way.  The easiest way is to take a few minutes of your time every now and then and fill out a ballot.

"I don't like it.  It's wrong and broken.  However I refuse to expend any of my own time or effort in an attempt to fix it.  Nor will I lend support (i.e. a vote) to anyone who does.  I expect someone else to bring the world to me.  Until my expectations are met, I will merely criticize and complain... and to hell with anyone who suggests I do otherwise!"

Zoomba, I appreciate your comments. And I understand what box you've placed me in, and why you have done so. I am an observer. I have stated what I observe which you might or might not have noticed is a small instance of "doing something...anything..." How your own words managed to escape you, I cannot say.

So is writing a blog post doing something? Maybe not in the way you accept. But maybe it makes one person think. And then there'd be two of us.

You are reacting to what you think I am, because there are so many that say the things I say, (as you stated you have noticed since 2000, was it?) and so it's easy to place me in the box with them. But I caution you not to be too overzealous in your decision that you understand who the man behind "Ock" is. I can tell you already, whether you like to believe it or not, that you do not.

What you do lose is the ability to be taken seriously in any discussion on the government, politics, elections etc

I've read many such discussions and find them to be mostly a waste of space. I'll tell a little story. I was born in '62, and so I was fairly young when the whole Watergate thing went down. My Dad had 5 brothers, and Dad and all of the brothers except one were staunch republicans. Through some weird twist of fate, I just happened to be visiting that one democratic uncle for the summer when the Watergate trials were going down. Here's what I saw.

My Republican father and 4 brothers (and their Dad, my grandfather - which I forgot to mention) all defending Mr. Nixon and his cohorts. "Ends justifies means" became a buzz phrase. Argument of whether ends actually do justify means continues to this day. And in the privacy of his house, my lone democratic uncle sat slavering,daily, over the chance that that damned republican was going to get it in the neck. It wasn't a pretty sight. Either side of it.

But we've grown used to it, haven't we? Because it goes on all the time as "business as usual" now. Watch TV. Listen to radio shows. Read these very forums, or numerous others, and the true nature of man is apparent. He seeks to kill those that disagree, and if law and repercussions prohibit it, then he'll denigrate them instead. So in short, if I'm not going to be taken seriously by these types, well it's only fair. I don't take them seriously, either.

"I don't like it. It's wrong and broken. However I refuse to expend any of my own time or effort in an attempt to fix it. Nor will I lend support (i.e. a vote) to anyone who does. I expect someone else to bring the world to me. Until my expectations are met, I will merely criticize and complain... and to hell with anyone who suggests I do otherwise!"

Are these words you're putting into my mouth? Then consider:

My contribution to changing things comes by way of being in the Navy which I've proudly been in for nearly 17 years. I'm not a combatant, but I do go on 'cruises,' into places where harm could come at any time, and I am a part of the United States military's mission to secure the seas for the population at large. The President chosen is my Commander in Chief. I'll defend *whoever* it is with my life. But I don't have to vote for them. I'm not ordered to.

Does your contribution measure to more than a vote? Tell me what you do to change things - it might make suffering your denigration of my little ditty on the electoral process a little easier to swallow. And if that's all you got, maybe you should retract that "hypocrite" word and pick up a mirror.

"Hello darkness my old friend..."

I can name that tune in ONE note!