Blacklists, and Censors, and Trolls. Oh My!!

Published on June 6, 2004 By OckhamsRazor In Misc

Dharmagrl, there are parts of the following that might seem a bit "heavy handed," or maybe they won't, but I'm gonna play it safe. I apologize in advance and only enter this in the spirit of healthy debate. Since I know samma-kammanta and samma-yayama to be important to you, I am sure you will understand.

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I began this post as a commentary on dharmagrl's post entitled Ranting and Raving which I noticed has received a rather large number of comments. I post the link for your edification as when I quote the article, I do not wish to be a sound-biter. The context of said quotes is now your responsibility. Go read the article

So considering her stance that "You have a blog of your own in which to voice your opinions, therefore you haven't been censored." I decided it best to move it to a full post of its own, for better or worse. That I have felt compelled to do this should be a red flag to anyone who is not afraid of thoughts. If it isn't a red flag to you, think about it.

I will admit that I have deliberately gone against the grain on another user's site, (and have been blacklisted for it), to entice critical thinking. That it enticed banning instead didn't surprise me at all in these two cases. For one it was in character, but for the other....well...it was a weakly defended argument - actually it was just an undefended one with an exclamation point of "and don't come back and put forth another argument on my blog (that has comments turned on) that I can't defend, either. Hmph!"

Maybe I'm way off base here, but...

1. If you allow comments on your blog, you might get some. Am I crazy?
2. Of that set "some", some might not be pleasant. Crazy again?
3. If you can't defend an opinion you make public, maybe you should quickly learn the implication of 1. and 2.

Dharmagrl went on to say "As one blogger explained it, your blog is like your home...and you have the right to remove anyone who you feel isn't behaving appropriatley in your home." and I am assuming (and if wrong, I apologize) that Dharmagrl concurs with this statement. Really? By a show of hands, how many of you leave your doors and windows unlocked when you leave the house? How many of you leave those precious possessions that you want to remain unblemished out in the middle of the floor at Grand Central Station?

Sometimes people disagree, and I find our differences to be our strengths. I disagree that your blog is like a home. It's a very poor simile. If your blog is like your home, it means you live here, and you might want to see my article "Ism" immediately, but I don't really think that's what the original writer meant. And I'll go out on a limb here with an opinion that I INVITE you all to disagree with publically on/in my blog/house while pushing that ole troll button as hard as you can. I think the original writer was afraid to look at the opinions of people that went against his/her way of thinking. I think the original writer of that comment might very likely press the blacklist button with the sole intent of making sure that he/she never had to face such a contrary opinion again, and if THAT particular writer didn't do it for that reason, do you think none have? Really? I could always be wrong.

Now on the subject of "trolling" let me attempt an explanation at something. A "troll" by standard net definitions, is someone that writes something for the sole purpose of getting a reaction out of someone.

We as a group have stated countless opinions and left comments turned "on". We have attempted literary works and kept comments turned "on." We have torn the virtual pages and colored outside the lines and ranted and raved and presented opinion as fact...and left comments turned "on"...

I won't speak for others, but...*looks around casually*...I go back and look to see if anyone has commented on things I have written. Tee-hee, I admit it. Yes, a part of the thrill of this for me is that people respond to what I say. I am therefore a troll to some extent, and I'll let your collective good honor decide for you what you are provided you (all encompassing, not dharma) have any. For some of you, (and since this is MY house and I can break whatever I want and just in general be obnoxious and an ass because this is my virtual page and not some other which makes it all different...somehow...) I don't think you have that honor. And that isn't a bad thing on a blog site, after all...it's to be expected. Isn't it? Well?

One of the staples of every blog site is the point/counterpoint aspect of it. Granted, some use it to get faux fame, some use it to make tangible those mental cobwebs that while not being necessarily works of art still scream for lives of their own, (my favorite reason), some actually write some pretty good shit (and since getting published is a "game" these days, many might prefer this to playing it) and some just dig being a part of whatever it is they think they're a part of here, but one of the most popular uses for them in MY opinion is the exchange of ideas in a "public" format. If you can agree with this statement, then please see 1, 2, and 3 above! If you can't? Then turn off your comments. It's that simple.

Now I invite every reader to think about this for a moment. What does it remind you of when someone gives you the ability to express yourself, but then when you do so they "punish" you? There is no right answer...take your time.

Thank you for the article, Dharma. I may not agree with everything you said, but I will defend your right to say it with my life just like your husband does.

Samma-ditthi, samma-sankappa, samma-vacha.

Comments (Page 2)

Sir Peter Maxwell

on Jun 07, 2004

A blog isn't a home, that wishy washy poofter analogy is ridiculous.

A blog is a website where people write down their thoughts and random strangers post inane comments in reply.

OckhamsRazor

on Jun 07, 2004

A blog is a website where people write down their thoughts and random strangers post inane comments in reply.

Ok, now THAT is comedy. Well done, SPM.

Sir Peter Maxwell

on Jun 07, 2004

Ok, now THAT is comedy. Well done, SPM.

Thank you dear boy

MasonM

on Jun 07, 2004

A blog is a website where people write down their thoughts and random strangers post inane comments in reply

Best definition of a blog I've seen to date.

JillUser

on Jun 07, 2004

Actually, a blog is a web log posted on a website. The "home" analogy was just that, an analogy not a definition. Take or leave it. I don't care. It was just a thought and it inspired others to think about how to treat others on their blogs.

Be it someone's actual home or their blog, I don't see it as a noble cause to condone nastiness. I wouldn't put up with someone calling me a bitch in either realm. If you don't mind people who are deplorable on your blog and can ignore it, good for you. Just don't try to put your own standards upon others. Don't look down your nose at someone who just doesn't want to deal with such irritants.

While I agree that it is wrong to blacklist just because someone opposes your stance on a subject, I don't see any merit in the "I won't blacklist or troll rate for any reason" stance. Everyone has different needs fulfilled by blogging. You can't expect everyone to fit your same template for blogging. But that is just my opinion.

messybuu

on Jun 07, 2004

I blacklist people who are only wasting my time and aren't being entertaining about it when I'm trying to be serious.

Dusk411

on Jun 07, 2004

For my blacklisting, I clearly stated that you are allowed to criticize the writing all you want. However, I draw the line at personal attacks. And wanting credentials? It's a fun, snarky website about music from the average person. It's not disseration of Romeo and Juliet,aimed only at academia!

Unpleasant comments I've received that have been along the lines of "crap review" or something along those lines. I've had my journalism professors tell me the same on occasion. Ocksham, you wanted something written focusing on the technical aspect of music, which my reviews are not about at all and will never be.

In real life, people do not want to be bullied and hear that opinion does not matter because of some insignificant detail, which in the long run doesn't really matter. I opt for the same on my blog. Those are my standards. Don't like them? That's your choice. As for it in being in character, well yeah that would be somewhat correct. I'm willing to stand up for myself and not let anyone just go on and on, personally attacking me.

MasonM

on Jun 07, 2004

However, I draw the line at personal attacks

As do I. Critical review of a blog article or a particular though expressed in a blog should be welcomed. It stimulates a good exchange of ideas. I enjoy it if someone disagrees with me as long as they can present a reasonable reason as to why they do. But, just to say "You're a silly ass for saying that" is just plain rude and I won't accept that.

Jill's analogy of a house was a good one in spite of all the nit-picking definitions of why it isn't. There is a certain decorum you follow depending on who's house you're in. A good, close bud's house you can be a bit rude. As a guest in someone else's house, you behave a bit more repectfully. It's as simple as that. You surely wouldn't go to an open house party and crap on the floor would you?

OckhamsRazor

on Jun 08, 2004

From Dusk411:

Ocksham, you wanted something written focusing on the technical aspect of music, which my reviews are not about at all and will never be.

Then it isn't a "music review" is it? And isn't that what you advertise it as?

I champion your right to your opinion, Dusk. I also champion the rights of your readers to know the truth.

Welcome to my blog, and enjoy your stay. There's cold beverages in the fridge and chips for days.

from Jilluser:

Be it someone's actual home or their blog, I don't see it as a noble cause to condone nastiness.

There is a difference between holding someone accountable for statements they make that hurt people (which I consider to be nastiness going in the public's direction, albeit a passive nastiness) and calling them names.

To all:
Hurt people, you say? Go talk to some NYC subway musicians that play their buns off and ask them why they don't have recording contracts. It's because the people that generate excitement (and therefore dollars) for music artists focus on everything except that artists actual music ability. And Dusk411, if your conscience can remain clear, then review on. Do try to get to the NYC subway someday, though...I think it might change your mind.

JakeD

on Jun 08, 2004

Good points Ock
But I have a few suggestions.
Shorten your sentences. One thought to a line. Your ideas are getting muddied from alluding. Fix that and I am sure you will make many intelligent comments.

OckhamsRazor

on Jun 08, 2004

Can you give me an example Jake? Not sure I understand what exactly you're referring to, no irony intended.

Dune

on Jun 13, 2004

I wish I'd read your article before erasing my 'keeping me away from america' one - the one were I started a debate about fingerprinting and civil rights and the threat of terrorists. I got alot of comments back from that that I hated, not cause I was opposed to what was being said, but because I felt, with one or two of them that I was being attacked. BUT, I erased the article cause I felt like a dumbass for posting it in the first place and not because people disagreed with me.

It's entirely up to the blogger who they choose to blacklist, afterall the great thing about someones weblog is that it's personal to them... but at the same time - you have to expect to get some shitty comments cause afterall, your'e posting your own comments on the world wide web and effectively exposing your thoughts to a hell of alot of people!

But I still wished that I'd read this article sooner, cause as a newbie, my first taste of 'negative comments' was quite an upsetting experience. I've promised myself to be tougher now though!

Draginol

on Jun 13, 2004

Dune:

Indeed, I'm right with you there on that issue. That's why we've put in so many features into JU so that bloggers don't have to put up with crap.

Who wants to express their opinion on their OWN blog only to have a bunch of people go on and start name calling or writing hurtful things?

Blacklisting is NOT censorship. A user can still go to their own blog and still write a response to someone else's blog.

OckhamsRazor

on Jun 13, 2004

Dune said:

I wish I'd read your article before erasing my 'keeping me away from america' one - the one were I started a debate about fingerprinting and civil rights and the threat of terrorists.

I wish I'd gotten a chance to read it before you deleted :/

Dune

on Jun 14, 2004

Oh, I'm sure I'll accidently kick start another big debate in the future without thinking... and I won't delete it next time

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