She'll never see it. It's something to be ashamed of.

I don't see work as toil, by the way. I see it as being.

O'dom = 'blood in the face.'

Ahhh...so Adam probably really wasn't named Adam until he saw Eve's naked complex parts that couldn't be made just from dust, probably got aroused over it, and was ashamed. I get it.

The hordes of men and women mentioned in Genesis 1 would later come to be known as 'The Mud People.' Heathen savages, souless by birth.

That actually in KJB? I haven't gotten that far.

Adam and Eve kept their bloodlines pure

Not really possible without the inbreeding of all their children, none of whom I have read are daughters, so even more not possible.

and thus we have caucasians appearing on this earth quite suddenly, and archeologically speaking, only about 6000 years ago. The mud people bones date back much further.

Now now. Carbon-14 dating isn't written about in the bible ANYwhere - which makes it clearly the invention of Satan-guided men. Just ask Walter McCrone.

We can discuss these theories more as I continue the series, but for the most part, I'm sticking very strictly to exactly what the book says.

And...there was no condemnation of incest in the Bible, at least not that early in the story.

Not to mention polygamy, but I haven't gotten that far, yet Probably will come in the next article.

I missed making a few responses, so I will now.

singrdave:

He may not have known good from evil, but he had the ability to follow simple instructions. This tree, BAD. Every other tree, GOOD.

Dave, what's the difference between bad and good and evil and good? I have to disagree with you. Without eating from this tree, there would be no way for Adam or Eve to understand the command.

When they ate of the tree of knowledge, Adam and Eve had become like God, knowing good from evil and having transgressed. If they'd also eaten from the tree of life, they'd have been immortal too -- thus negating the mission of Jesus Christ to pay for their (and everybody else's) sins

I am familiar with this concept of Adam and Eve HAD to sin so that Jesus could come and fix it all later, which to me is a really ridiculous way to go about treating your children, but that aside, if it DID go down, just that way, then why didn't God say "Hey...thanks Eve! You did exactly what I wanted and expected you to, and now my plan is right on track. I appreciate it!"

Jythier:

Where's Adam? Where's Eve? Oh, that's right, they're DEAD. Hence... not a lie.

I'm just reporting the facts straight from the book, J. The line clearly says "IN the day" not "AFTER the day."

Planted a garden, and you expect him to just remove it?

You have kids, right J? I don't recall. Actually after the comment about childbirth, no, you don't have kids yet. Still, you can imagine this scenario. If you have a basket full of baseballs, and you tell your two year old "Now no touchie the baseballs!" and your child promptly picks up a baseball and launches it through a nearby window the first second you aren't watching it, what are you going to do? Replace the glass and hand the kid another ball? Well, maybe you would. Right after berating them about how utterly bad they are as people. To your two year old you'd do this. And then you'd kick him out of the house and tell him that there is absolutley no way to ever get past this one. You told them not to touch the shiny baseballs, that you put in easy reach, and they touched them. Evil evil two year old!!!! SINNER!!!

I don't think you'd do any of these things. You'd say to yourself, "That was dumb of me. Two year olds are curious. I have no one to blame for that broken glass but myself. Then you'd replace the glass and move the basket to somewhere the two year old could no longer reach it, wouldn't you? Wouldn't you?

There's been some debate - very little, but some - in this thread about what exactly Adam and Eve knew before they ate from that tree. They seem to have been made full grown and with the ability to talk. They needed to eat, so they were already suffering before doing anything at all. Hunger being a form of suffering that requires continual maintenance to relieve - temporarily. What else did they know or not know? Not good and evil, for sure, but what else? What software package came default in Adam and Eve v1.0? Do they get to upgrade after being 1 day old? Nope, because it said right there in the EULA: In version 1.1, you'll be able to make a decision not to take certain actions - PROVIDED you have not yet taken those actions. This version will not be available until you DO take those actions.

The second installation is brewing in the back of my mind, but I have to wait for the snake to swallow his mouthful of dust so he can whisper it to me.

Maybe tomorrow.

I have two kids, by the way. And that comment on childbirth was completely misunderstood, and I clarified, but nobody cares about that because I'm just a guy, why would I even mention childbirth? How dare I say anything about it?

And 2 year olds do that WHILE you're watching them, by the way.

My oldest has quite an arm already, he's going to be two end of October.

Adam and Eve had all the information they needed and enough intelligence to not blindly follow directions, for sure. They did not have the intelligence of a two year old. They also knew their creator, that they had been created, and He had told them NOT to do a certain thing.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,"

Sounds like someone's able to process things pretty well there. She didn't just do whatever she was told, she checks things out for herself. She didn't just do what the snake told her to do either. So why do you keep saying they were created stupid when they obviously were able to think for themselves?

For a master of the obvious, it should be so. I don't believe this story is real.

And I didn't say they were stupid, in fact I went into detail about wondering what exactly DID they know, because we can debate their comprehension levels all day long, but the result is the same - what were their actions? That's the only indicator we really have of their ability to comprehend. What they DID.

Whenever I ponder this stuff, there's only one thought process I can go to - my own. That process is that if I was Adam, or Eve for that matter, and I understood the directive of the being that made me, not only would I not eat that fruit, I'd probably live as far away from that tree as possible. God would say "Ock, don't eat from that tree over there" and Ock would say "I'll go you one better, Dad, I won't even look at it." I'd be surprised by anyone saying that if things were as described - God created Adam, then Eve, and they KNEW He did so - that if in their shoes they'd say "Oh yeah. I'd eat from that tree immediately." That's what makes it difficult for me to believe that Eve could be so cavalier about it. And if I did eat of it and found myself caught, my reaction would not be to point fingers. Adam pointed to Eve (blame). Eve pointed at the snake (blame) I'd have pointed at myself (and I do daily). Again, I am surprised they didn't which is why the story lacks versimilitude for me.

Of course you'd eat that fruit, Ock. You're eating it right now, when confronted with Jesus. The one thing he told you you need to do, and you ignore it instead. You ARE eating the fruit.

If you weren't going to eat the fruit, it would've been, "Believe in Jesus." "I'll go you one better Dad, I'll believe in Jesus AND try to live like He did."

Also, God gave ADAM the command directly, not Eve.

She knew. Obviously she knew, she talked about it with the snake. But God had given the command beforehand, to Adam. Adam told Eve. She disobeyed her husband, and her God. She knew just as well what He had said, even though He did not speak to her directly on the subject.

Adam was not deceived by Eve. He knew what he was doing when he ate the fruit. He was following Eve instead of God.

F in Objectivism.

You've pretty much proven the point that only someone seeking the truth will find it. If you were seeking the truth, you would think about the Bible in order to make sense of it, instead of looking at it to poke holes in it. You will be able to poke holes, but there will always be an alternate explanation that makes sense. If you are trying to make sense of it, you will find it. If you try to make it senseless and contradictory, you will be able to, because you have spotted something and no other explanation needs to be heard. Why would you listen to me? I'm a Christian, trapped in my blind obedience. My explanations must not make sense.

The Bible works in such a way that whatever you want to find in it, you will find. If you want to find a book that doesn't make sense, you'll find it. If you want to find a reason to hate gays, you'll find that. And if you want to find the truth, God's truth, you'll find that.

Have fun in your quest to smear our book. All you're going to prove is that you don't want to know God's truth.

Do have fun, and do keep it up. I find your humorous outlook refreshing, and makes me see my own beliefs through new eyes.

Gee, why didn't *I* think of that? Ok, I'm bumping you up to a D.



Oops. Back to an F again. But Objectivism is offered every semester, including summers, so you can try again someday. I recommend Sense of Humor 101, too.



I'm glad the humor part wasn't lost on you. Hehe, everyone loves that "don't pull the mote from someone else's eye," line...up to a point, and then its forgotten.



In my next one, I think I'll just do the post, and then write all the replies, too. It wouldn't exactly be hard to predict.

"Maybe I'm a masochist of a different variety. I like discussing religion - basically of all types, but the only ones that seem to generate any healthy (and maybe sometimes not so healthy) debate are Christians. So I'm re-reading the King James bible to reacquaint myself with certain things in it that - I'm sorry - to me make no sense. I'm not expecting much debate on this stuff, really, because debate requires logic, and there is no logic to be found in a lot of this. It isn't meant to denigrate the Christian religion, but simply to point out that maybe we don't know as much as we think we do."

Thanks for the article O-R. As a student of the scriptures I always find it comforting to find those who bring the truth of the scripture to light......

"Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return unto the lord, and He will have mercy upon him; and to our God for He will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither your ways my ways, saith the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts higher than your thoughts."

For the individual that attempts to glean the depth of the word if God apart from the The Spirit of Truth, it is liken to one attempting to explain global warming to a ferret.

hamartanō