Ha. Nice. Would you mind if I emailed this to my husband (giving you credit, of course)?

Of couse not, TW...I'd be honored. I'm currently fixing a few formatting problems, so give me a few moments

Edit: All done. Have at it!

Great article! Very thought-provoking... let me see if I can add to the discussion.

Maybe I'm a masochist of a different variety. I like discussing religion - basically of all types, but the only ones that seem to generate any healthy (and maybe sometimes not so healthy) debate are Christians.

It's not masochism... it's sadism. You like to inflict your ideas on others!

since Adam hadn't eaten of the tree of knowledge at the point this order was given, how was he supposed to know what it meant?

He may not have known good from evil, but he had the ability to follow simple instructions. This tree, BAD. Every other tree, GOOD.

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Genesis 3:22 So apparently the evil old snake wasn't lying. It looks to me that God was way pissed off that by eating the tree of knowledge of good and evil AND eating of the tree of life would make Adam and Eve to be Gods themselves.

When they ate of the tree of knowledge, Adam and Eve had become like God, knowing good from evil and having transgressed. If they'd also eaten from the tree of life, they'd have been immortal too -- thus negating the mission of Jesus Christ to pay for their (and everybody else's) sins. Now I'm not an original sin guy at all -- people are only accountable for their own sins and not their ancestors' -- but had they eaten the life fruit, Adam and Eve would have skipped the dying and judgment part and gone straight to their eternal, immortal reward.

And God said "Just because I put it there waving right in front of your face, looking all juicy and all, and even though I deliberately put it here when I could have kept it somewhere else doesn't mean you can eat from it. You understand that?"

Strange that God didn't know where Adam was hiding.

Good summary. Very funny! Adam had to choose for himself whether or not to eat that fruit. Though he didn't know good from evil, he still had his freedom to choose. That's also why God was asking for Adam rather than just appearing in front of him while Adam cowered behind the bushes. Adam had to confess his own transgression before the Lord, and he had to do so without compulsion. All about the agency, baby.

I planned to comment more but my day's up...

Thanks singrdave. There's more coming. You'll have plenty of time to explain to me how words don't mean anything - unless they do - what you and others want them to.

Ciao!

I think I will just read the comments and eat my popcorn.

"But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die."

"As it turns out, that, literally, was a lie."

Where's Adam? Where's Eve? Oh, that's right, they're DEAD. Hence... not a lie. You, much like the serpent, would say something like, "Oh you won't die NOW." which would be true, and makes a lot of sense in this world - one where people die. But, before they ate, nobody had died. At all. They weren't GOING to die, either, because they had the tree of life to eat from.

"Behold, the man is become as one of us"

1. There's something called the royal 'we'.
2. There's God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, all of which live forever. Could be refering to all of himself. When yourself has three parts like God does, you can call yourself 'us' too.

"And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons."

They were ashamed. Not to say nakedness is evil at all, but they were naked before God with their sins and naked before each other, and they were probably not at all liking each other at this point.

Adam: "I can't believe you ate from the one tree we're not allowed to."
Eve: "Well, you ate it too. And now we have the knowledge of good and evil!"
Adam: "Yeah, just enough knowledge to know you really messed this up."
Eve: "You were right there with me, why didn't you stop me? Huh? You know how I love fruit..."
Adam: "Stupid woman's lib movement."
Eve: "Ooooh no you didn't..."
Etc. Can you now see why they wanted to cover themselves?

"He punished all snakes that would ever live to be on their bellies and eat dust and such. Um. Weren't serpents on their bellies already?"

Guess not, huh, or it wouldn't have been much of a punishment. I don't know about the eating dust part, but I'm sure they do so. Not for food or anything, just like a little kid eating dirt...

"As for us men. We gotta grow our own food forever now. I guess. I mean this is the word of God, no? Oops...hold on. Microwave just went off. Gotta get my hotpockets."

Did you not toil for those hotpockets, playing bad music(playing well, I'm sure)? Or doing whatever it is Ocks do? Do you not have the inner drive to provide for your family? Every man does, though some opt to not even try for fear of failing.

"Because there was no other way to do it, I guess. Like remove the garden entirely or something. Actually, he planted it according to Genesis 2:8. Created the entire universe in 6 days but wanted to add a personal touch, I suppose. For some reason. "

Planted a garden, and you expect him to just remove it? Added his own person gift to us. Swords are cool. Flaming swords are cooler. What's wrong with having a flaming sword guarding a way somewhere? I see nothing but an awesome God there.

"And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden. And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou? And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself. And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat? And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat. And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat."

So the first thing Adam does is blame the wife. This is still going on today. No Adam, it's your fault. You should've spoken up and said something when she took some fruit. Something along the lines of, "God told us not to eat that, Eve." Instead, Adam was silent. This is still going on today. And, when given some from her, you could've said, "No, I'll pass, thanks." But no. You chose Eve over God. This is still going on today.

Before we had the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve got to walk with God. Be with Him. Hang out with Him. Talk to Him, look at Him without dying, etc. They knew they should obey Him. They didn't, though, and now we have consequences.

I would put a bet that the pain of childbirth is more psychological than physical, by the way. Watching your kids grow up, making mistakes, maybe not even following Jesus...

Swords are cool. Flaming swords are cooler. What's wrong with having a flaming sword guarding a way somewhere?

To quote TW from another post:

Hahahahahahahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha

Ok...I think I'm done. No...wait....

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ok. That's it.

I think I will just read the comments and eat my popcorn.

There's not going to be much to see here that will require popcorn. I am pronouncing myself a Christian, and therefore will not be debated on what the Holy Word of God says. It's not open for interpretation (except for mine) and that's all there is to it. So there. Isn't that how it goes?

Sigh, that was a copout. Ok, get your popcorn.

Where's Adam? Where's Eve? Oh, that's right, they're DEAD.

No they aren't. Adam and Eve, being the two from which we all came from, are alive and well inside of all of us. This is the eternal life we are all given. Genetics, son.

1. There's something called the royal 'we'. 2. There's God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, all of which live forever. Could be refering to all of himself. When yourself has three parts like God does, you can call yourself 'us' too.

Only if I'm a megolomaniac that punishes people for not thinking what they don't have the capacity to think...especially if I created them without that capacity on PURPOSE.

They were ashamed. Not to say nakedness is evil at all, but they were naked before God with their sins and naked before each other, and they were probably not at all liking each other at this point.

And you know this how? It's not in the book, Jythier. It says pretty damn clearly they ate the fruit, they became aware of their nakedness, and they covered it immediately. God wasn't even in proximity (taking the context later reported that he walked among them). How is it that you see fit to alter the word of God with your interpretation?

So the first thing Adam does is blame the wife. This is still going on today. No Adam, it's your fault. You should've spoken up and said something when she took some fruit.

There is no indication in the good book that Adam was anywhere around.

Something along the lines of, "God told us not to eat that, Eve." Instead, Adam was silent. This is still going on today. And, when given some from her, you could've said, "No, I'll pass, thanks." But no. You chose Eve over God. This is still going on today.

There's also no indication that Adam knew what he was eating when she gave it to him. He only realized afterward. ACCORDING TO THE BIBLE. But man he got the royal stick up his ass anyway, didn't he?

Before we had the knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve got to walk with God. Be with Him. Hang out with Him. Talk to Him, look at Him without dying, etc. They knew they should obey Him. They didn't, though, and now we have consequences.

No, not according to the book they didn't. They basically were like pets. They had no more idea that it was wrong to eat that fruit than my dog understands that it is wrong to steal food off our plates when we aren't looking. The only difference is, I don't send my dog to hell for it. I realize it is a part of his nature to like to eat things that look and smell tasty. And if I don't want him to get it, well I make sure I either look after my plate or put it somewhere he can NOT get it. I'm sorry. Is this concept too difficult for God?

Did you not toil for those hotpockets, playing bad music(playing well, I'm sure)?

Put this one out of order. Sorry. No, I didn't really toil for them at all. I used means that were born into me - and a thing that gives me joy to do - most of the time - to acquire those hotpockets. Do I do it well? Well, that's subjective. I could do it better, but I feel my competency as a musician is a digression, so I'll just leave it at that. Be more concerned - everyone - with your competency as a listener, and worry not about Ock's competency as a player. I will submit myslelf to judgement when the competency of the listener is proven.

I would put a bet that the pain of childbirth is more psychological than physical

One word of advice. Just one. Hide.

OK, now it's MY turn to quote TW!



Hahahahahahahahahahaha

HAHAHAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahaha

Ok...I think I'm done. No...wait....

Hahahahahahahahahahahaha

Ok. That's it.

Great response, Ock!

Great response, Ock!

Heh. Thanks Gid. I appreciate you dropping by.

When they ate of the tree of knowledge, Adam and Eve had become like God, knowing good from evil and having transgressed. If they'd also eaten from the tree of life, they'd have been immortal too -- thus negating the mission of Jesus Christ to pay for their (and everybody else's) sins. Now I'm not an original sin guy at all -- people are only accountable for their own sins and not their ancestors' -- but had they eaten the life fruit, Adam and Eve would have skipped the dying and judgment part and gone straight to their eternal, immortal reward.

Just because I forgot to comment on this. I think there is meaning here.

God never ANYWHERE told them not to eat of the tree of life. That tree wasn't forbidden until they ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Now how different would things be, I wonder, if they had eaten the life fruit first? Ah well, another day, another silly blog pretending I know.

Which by the way, stay tuned for the subsequent chapters. It becomes really funny later.

So there. Isn't that how it goes?

pass the butter please.

By the pain of childbirth, I meant the 3 times the pain in childbearing is emotional, nto physical. It was going to physically hurt anyway. That's all I meant by that comment, not that it doesn't hurt.

"No they aren't. Adam and Eve, being the two from which we all came from, are alive and well inside of all of us. This is the eternal life we are all given. Genetics, son."

No, they're dead. They surely died. It's in the Bible that they died. And isn't that what this is all about?

"Only if I'm a megolomaniac that punishes people for not thinking what they don't have the capacity to think...especially if I created them without that capacity on PURPOSE."

Tree of knowledge of good and evil, not tree of brilliance. They already had logic and the ability to learn, follow directions, NOT follow directions, make choices, etc.

"There is no indication in the good book that Adam was anywhere around."

"and gave also unto her husband with her;"

No need to say much more.

"No, I didn't really toil for them at all. I used means that were born into me - and a thing that gives me joy to do - most of the time - to acquire those hotpockets."

Then I'm sorry, but you're going to have to give them back.

Seriously though, you did work for them, or you wouldn't have had money to buy them. Even if you enjoy your work, it's still work.

"Do I do it well? Well, that's subjective."

I only added the 'playing it well' so you wouldn't think I was trying to say you were a bad musician, just that you've been complaining about having to play crummy music, so I put 'bad music'.

Jythier: I will be surprised if you live to see 30 without having a woman light your penis on fire.